Remarkable islamic quotes from a less advertised, hidden side of Islam

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Whatsthisthen - islamic teachings & un-islamic opinions
(quoting scriptures & scholars of islam)
http://whatsthisthen.netfirms.com/indexlinks.html

# Remarkable islamic quotes from a less advertised, hidden side of Islam
http://whatsthisthen.netfirms.com/islamicquotes.html

# Unlogical logic of Harun Yahya & Quran
http://whatsthisthen.netfirms.com/yahyalogic.html

# What does the British muslim organization Al Muhajiroun has in store for the UK
http://whatsthisthen.netfirms.com/almuhajiroun.html

# Mullah's and their words of wisdom
http://whatsthisthen.netfirms.com/mullahwisdom.html

# Questions for Muslims
http://whatsthisthen.netfirms.com/questions.html

# Pagan symbols of worship on pre-islamic coins
http://whatsthisthen.netfirms.com/paganworship.html

Also:
In the Spotlight:
# Sahih Muslim Book 008 - Chapter 29:
It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (of menses or delivery) in case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive

# Islamic justification for the killing of Unbelievers in Mohammed's days (what was that again, about 'there is no compulsion in Islam' ... ?)

# Fatwa at the website of the University of Houston Muslim Students Association:
"someone who refuses to pray must be killed"

# Muslim militants set deadline for women to quit jobs

# Yemeni who insulted Islam to lose his head


thanx for visiting

[jgutierezz0911]

Don't you have anything better to do?

Originally posted by belguita

Don't you have anything better to do?

Hola belguita ... sometimes I have and sometimes I haven't ... why you ask? And why the angry face? Lighten up a bit!

[jgutierezz0911]

Well, normally I don't often have an angry face, but I do whenever I read the kind of things that appear on your website... I remember you already made publicity for it on our site before and that I reacted then too.
The kind of quotes you put there don't represent "the" muslim. It's only a very small radical minority. But a lot of people - like you - are always emphasizing this negative side... While islam in general is not like that at all. Let me ask you something: have you ever been in a muslim country? Well, I have, and the people I met there were very tolerant and nice, and not like the fundamentalists you are representing at all...
Don't misunderstand me, I know that this kind of people exist, but I just think that sites like yours only contribute to the construction of an always more negative image of islam in general, which doesn't seem fair to me either...

[celticnecioso]

belguita,
You are awesome! I’ve read you in Open Board that is a little silly and you are not, you are just very cool. In more serious topics (politics,world affairs,religion,etc.) that most people don’t want to talk about nor know anything about you are very bright, knowledgeable. I can see/read you are very smart, traveled and multilingual as well, congratulations! and great job on your answer to whatsthisthen.
Have a great weekend and keep up the good work!

Xavi

[jgutierezz0911]

Thanks for all those nice things you said about me...
Actually I thought that nobody of the open board ever read the things I write elsewhere...
But apparently there are people who do! That's good to know
I hope you have a wonderful weekend too! Y a ver si algun dia coincidimos y charlamos un rato en el open board. Seria lindo!
Cuidate mucho Xavi!
Abrazo,
Katrien

Hi Belguita & Xavi113, thanx for your reply.

Belguita wrote: "The kind of quotes you put there don't represent "the" muslim. It's only a very small radical minority."

While I agree with you that the quotes I quote probably do not represent EVERY muslim (where did I say that they do by the way? I'm not focussing on 'the muslim', I'm focussing on authentic teachings from Islam, that may not be followed by every muslim, but they sure are to be found on a wide variety of islamic websites, and not all of them being 'radical'), but the fact remains that they do represent a certain side of islamic teachings.

I'm not trying to associate every muslim with the sometimes horrible things described and preached in the quotes.... I'm trying to expose the existing, but hidden, darker side of Islam .... 'the other side of islam' about which 'we' don't hear anything from all the public-relation muslims in 'the west'... see it as a counter balance to all the rosy stories we hear from muslims about how wonderful Islam & Shariah are and how bad & evil all the other systems of belief /political/law systems are...


In another post I saw you stating that you think a 9-year old girl is not yet ready for motherhood and that abortion was right in that case.... well, it is mainstream islamic law that girls can be effectively 'given away in marriage' when they have their first menstruation, no matter what their age is. And guess what? She can be 'given away' without her consent. This has been made legal in islamic law beacuse it was prophet Mohammed who did just that: while being in his fifties he engaged the 6-year old Aisha and 'consumated' the marriage when she was 9. We can read that in e.g. the hadiths, after the Quran the second most important islamic scriptures and the main source for the islamic law/shariah.

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Some hadiths about this issue:
. Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#007.062.017
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'


. Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236 :
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#005.058.236
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.


. Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#007.062.067
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."


. Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen....html#041.4915
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

. Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4917:
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine.


. Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151 :
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#008.073.151

Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)


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I can assure you that the scholars/sites below are in no way representing just a 'small and radical part' of the muslim community, as their answers are firmly imbedded in the Sharia:

Q & A site of Muslim Students Organization of the University of Houston:
http://www.uh.edu/campus/msa/article...riage.html#age

(scroll down to: )
Question:
Is it allowed for a father to force his daughter to marry a specific man that she does not want to marry?

Answer:
...... If she is married without her permission, by threat or coercion, then the marriage is not valid. The only exeption is in the case of the father and his daughter who is less than nine years of age. There is no harm if he gets her married while she is less than nine years old, according to the correct opinion. This is based on the messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) marrying Aisha without her consent when she wass less than nine years old, as is stated in authentic Hadith. ....

_________________________


Marriage at an early age
http://www.islamicvoice.com/august.98/marriage.htm#EAR

Question:
I have a nine year-old girl who is married to a person at the age of 20.....

Answer:
..... Scholars have discussed at length the marriage of a young girl who has not attained puberty and whether her father may marry her away without her permission. If such a marriage takes place it is valid. However, it is perhaps best if the marriage is not allowed to be consummated until the girl attains puberty .....

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Another worrying thing is firmly stated in the Quran: muslim men can have sexual relationships with female slaves:

Quran 4:24
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.024
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess

Quran 23:1-6
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/023.qmt.html
01: The believers must (eventually) win through,-
02: Those who humble themselves in their prayers;
03: Who avoid vain talk;
04: Who are active in deeds of charity;
05: Who abstain from sex,
06: Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame

Quran 33:50
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.050
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee

Quran 33:52
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.052
It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens)

Quran 70:23-30
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/070.qmt.html#070.023
23:Those who remain steadfast to their prayer;
24: And those in whose wealth is a recognised right.
25: For the (needy) who asks and him who is prevented (for some reason from asking);
26: And those who hold to the truth of the Day of Judgment;
27: And those who fear the displeasure of their Lord,-
28: For their Lord's displeasure is the opposite of Peace and Tranquillity;-
29: And those who guard their chastity,
30: Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed,


==================

Now if there's one thing that all muslims agree on it's the authenticity of the Quran. Muslims are a lot more faithful than most christians and thus the overwhelming majority of muslims believe the Quran represents the literal word of Allah. Sex with female slaves is also mentione in the hadiths (note that Mohammed didn't forbid it):

. Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#007.062.137
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."


. Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 637:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#005.059.637
Narrated Buraida:
The Prophet sent 'Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and 'Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus."


. Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3371:
Chapter 22: AL AZL (INCOMPLETE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE): COITUS INTERRUPTUS
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen....html#008.3371

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added:
We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them.
So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.



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And again, you can find present-day imams & shaykhs all over the internet stating this islamically approved sexual relationship between a slave woman and her master:

FATAAWA OF SHAYKH AL-ALBAANEE [RAHIMAHULLAAH]
Author: Shaykh Muhammad Naasirud-Deen al-Albaanee
Source: Al-Manhaj
Published: 28th May 2002
MISCELLANEOUS QUESTIONS AND THEIR RULINGS
http://www.theclearpath.com/sunnah/f...lbaanee/13.php

[56] Question: What is the ruling concerning masturbation?

Answer: We have no doubts regarding the forbiddance of such a practice. And this is due to two reasons, the first of which is the saying of Allaah, the Most High, concerning the description of the believers:

"Successful indeed are the believers. Those who offer their prayer with full submissiveness. And those who turn away from false and vain talk. And those who pay the Zakaah. And those who guard their chastity – Except with their wives or (slaves) that their right hands possess, for (in that) they are free from blame. But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors." [Surah Al-Mu’minoon: 1-8]

Imaam Ash-Shaafi'ee used this ayah as proof for the forbiddance of masturbating. This is since, in this ayah, Allaah has placed two ways for the true Believers to fullfill their desires - either by marrying free women or by enjoying the slave women and female war captives.

Then He says: "But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors" meaning: Whosoever desires a way by which to transmit his desires, apart from these two ways of marriage and taking female war captives, then he is a transgressor and a wrongdoer.




Right Hand Possessions
http://www.binoria.org/q&a/miscellan...ml#possessions

Question:
What is the meaning of right hand possession and what was the purpose of having them. Some brothers in America think it is okay to have right hand possessions now in the USA.

Answer:
Right hand possessions (Malak-ul-Yameen) means slaves and maids, those came in possession of Muslims through war or purchase.

After having the possession of slave maid it is lawful and correct to have sexual relations with them.

Even today if Muslims get possession over infidel country, this condition is possible, lawful and correct.

_________________________



This is from the most popular and most referred-to islamic Question & Answer site on the web: http://www.islam-qa-com:
Question #5707: The difference between slaves and prostitutes
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln...&QR=5707&dgn=3

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
..... Slavery in Islam was originally prescribed because of Kufr. If there is jihaad between the Muslims and the kuffaar, and a number of kuffaar are taken prisoner, the commander is given the choice of sharing them out, doing them a favour (by releasing them) or paying their ransom.

If they are shared out as part of the booty, they become slaves, subject to the laws governing products which may be sold. .......

..... If a woman is enslaved according to sharee'ah, it is permissible for her master to have intercourse with her .....


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And did you know that Mohammed ordered that all non-muslims should be driven out of the Arabian peninsula, and that untill today penalties on preaching any other religion than Islam are severe ... Muslims demand their rights 'here in the West' (and we give them their rights naturally) but their scriptures and their factual actions don't give the same rights to non-muslims in islamic countries, not even in the (presently non-existing) 'Khalifa'/islamic state ....

I don't think it is a bad idea when a site like mine tries to draw a little attention to these facts; ... after all it's done by presenting quotes from islamic scriptures and islamic scholars, not by inciting discrimination or hatred against muslims....




You might also want to take a look what secular and ex-muslims themselves have to say about islam...
e.g.: http://www.secularislam.org/

Maybe you could start with reading how official islamic law views people like us (non-muslims) when we were to live in an islamic state:

Is Islam Compatible With Democracy and Human Rights?
http://www.secularislam.org/law.htm

Try to read something about 'Dhimmies'/'Zimmies', the non-muslim citizens of an official islamic state and what their rights and duties are... they will be forced to pay an extra tax because they are non-muslims, they will be forced to wear special clothing to make them distinct from the muslims (where did we see that happening before...) .... you'll be amazed... this is Shariah: mainstream islamic teachings, but not very advertized ....

take care & have a nice weekend

[Edited by whatsthisthen on 1st March 2003 at 07:11]